Comments on: That Was Quick. OpenBD Out. Railo In.

By: Jim

Jim — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 16:16:15 +0000

FWIW – I added all the related blog posts above (if I missed any let me know).

I really like Gert’s reply to Ben’s post. I’ve mentioned it in the past as well but I agree with Gert – I think we’re getting to the point that some kind of “CFML expert group” needs to be organized with members from ALL involved parties: Adobe, OpenBD, Railo and Smith.

Ideally we could put all these differences behind us and move forward.

By: Brian Rinaldi

Brian Rinaldi — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 15:39:27 +0000

@Matt – You know I don’t hold anything against you (or anyone else for that matter) for joining the openBD board. We have had a difference of opinion on the matter from day one and I know we discussed it at cf.objective. I think everyone who joined the board did so out of interest in bettering the CFML community. I think if people are making this personal that is a mistake. I think Adam’s post somehow singled you out and made you the brunt of criticism very unfairly and I am certain that can be very discouraging, especially when folks forget the long list of contributions you have made to the community over the years.

Nonetheless, I think it is difficult to expect people to forget the past with New Atlanta and Alan and Vince have been less than careful in what they said despite knowing it is unwise to do so. If those words have caused the defections of Sean and Mike then it was even more unwise. The inclusion of people such as yourself, Sean, Mark and Mike took a big step in legitimizing openBD despite the initial skepticism of folks who distrusted New Atlanta and their intentions. Therefore, its really not a huge surprise that these defections so soon have seriously damaged that perceived legitimacy.

Clearly we are dealing in perceptions here which are very much tied to emotion and bias and are completely subjective (and often don’t clearly reflect the reality). Still, that is part of why Alan wanted repected folks like you on his board in the first place, to influence perception. He made the bed…

By: Matt Woodward

Matt Woodward — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 15:07:41 +0000

@Brian–what you say goes both ways. Many, many, MANY people are being unnecessarily hard on the project (and me personally) because of stuff that has nothing to do with the merits of the project itself but are based more on rumor, innuendo, and personal bias. That says a lot about those people as well.

By: Andy Powell

Andy Powell — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:30:59 +0000

I think that the bad blood generated by NA has invariably tainted Open BD, like it or not. Conversely, by joining up with JBoss, that gives Railo near instant credibility in not only the CF Community, but the Java community as well, and the open source community as a whole. Of course, this is all just my perception, so it’s subjective. But that’s what an opinion is. Is anyone really going to be objective about this subject? I don’t think so.

By: Brian Rinaldi

Brian Rinaldi — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:18:23 +0000

@Matt, you know I have the utmost respect for you and consider you a friend but I think you are going to easy on the project because of your attachment to it perhaps. It seems to be surrounded by the constant melodrama and antics that have followed New Atlanta from day one. Is some of this perhaps a matter of a negative perception driven by past incidents? I’m sure that it is…but to use a sports analogy, sure Rasheed Wallace often gets called for technicals he may not completely deserve, but 9 times out of 10 he does deserve them and, in the end, brought this negative reputation upon himself. You would think Vince and Alan would be especially careful about what they say in light of the negative feelings that exist in the community. Alas, they weren’t and that in and of itself says a lot about them.

By: Sebastiaan

Sebastiaan — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 09:16:38 +0000

@radekg:
Mark Drew resigned because he did “buggerall” in the project, and as such wanted 2 leave his spot 2 some1 who actually was able 2 put some effort in2 the project ;-)

I’m with Matt Woodward on this: get the facts, all the facts, b4 bullying anyone anywhere. Especially in comments in blogs where the perceived anonymity brings out the beast in many…

By: Mike Brunt

Mike Brunt — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 04:37:05 +0000

I also resigned from the OpenBD project today and I am honest enough to realize that I am much less significant than Sean or Mark and that is fitting, as they have contributed much more that I have to the community.

The success of OpenBD will be determined by the community it was crafted to serve, the CFML community which came out of ColdFusion along with DBML. Alan Williamson is a very astute person with a vision many years ago to use the benefits of ColdFusion in the Java world and he should be recognized for that. I am sure he had the choice to create something totally different but he chose to emulate ColdFusion, which already existed. ColdFusion had succeeded because of the community and that community should not be underestimated nor derided, in my opinion.

By: Tony Garcia

Tony Garcia — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 22:15:53 +0000

@Matt
Yes, but what about Rey’s other concerns? Specifically Alan Williamson saying that he’s “sick and tired of hearing about the ‘CF community’”, and “so called ‘rock stars’ within the CF community are just a lot of empty vessels” (according to Sean). With all due respect, I don’t think you can blame anyone for having concerns about that.

By: Brian Swartzfager

Brian Swartzfager — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:26:55 +0000

Reading over my earlier comment, I realize that I didn’t express my thoughts on this matter very clearly. I don’t speak “off the cuff” very well, which is why I never got around to finishing my own blog post on these events.

Do I think the OpenBD project has “imploded?” No, but I think Sean’s resignation is definitely a loss. Do I think what Vince and Alan said hurt the image of the OpenBD project, pehaps (only time will tell) fatally? Yes, I do. Even if they were somewhat quoted out of context, why they would say something even remotely dismissive of CFML and the CFML community when they knew there were concerns about the motivation for the project already floating out there is beyond me.

Do I think the other OpenBD committee members have the best interests of the ColdFusion/CFML community at heart, and will do what they feel is right for CFML? Yes, I do, but I think their their mission to find acceptance and adoption of OpenBD just got a lot harder, both because of these continuing questions and because there’s now another option for open-source CFML (Railo).

Even if we don’t all agree on the impact or significance of these events on the OpenBD project, I think we can all agree that a number of events occurred this week that could reshape the future of CFML development (for better or for worse), and that is a valid topic for a blog post.

By: radekg

radekg — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:16:11 +0000

It looks like not only Sean Corfield resigned of OpenDB. Mark Drew also: http://www.markdrew.co.uk/blog.....agon-again.